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Cliff Jones
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PostSubject: Tube testers    2010-11-26, 11:15 pm

First topic message reminder :

This is just to get this topic started. I have 3 tube testers, a Jackson 636, and a couple of B&Ks.
One being a 747 and the other a 707.
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I just replaced a resistor in the Jackson that was way out of tolerance and now I can do a line adjust.
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I would like to make a tube socket strip for the newer B&Ks to test older 4 and 5 pin tube types on. Oh well another project. Has anyone done this?
-----------------
On another note there are a number of Web sites that do have free Manual downloads for old tube testers.
If you come across those drop me a PM and possibly add them to our Links.
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Cliff Jones
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PostSubject: Re: Tube testers    2015-01-05, 3:10 pm

The Jackson 115 does have a 9 pin socket.
look on the top left side of the tester.
It is the small socket in the center.

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CHUCKSUE



Join date : 2015-01-03

PostSubject: Re: Tube testers    2015-01-07, 9:50 am

Where your nine pin socket is I have a five pin socket that I have never seen before. I will put a nine pin in its place.
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Cliff Jones
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PostSubject: Re: Tube testers    2015-01-07, 5:00 pm

So what is in the center socket on the right side of the tester?
You can wire the nine pin in with Pin # to Pin # without to much of a problem. All sockets are wired in Parallel. Good Luck.

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ThomasJD



Join date : 2015-10-31

PostSubject: Calibration Signal Voltage question B&K 707    2015-10-31, 10:37 am

I have replaced the caps, tubes and am able to get the Short Test and Grid Emission Tests done fine. I have also re-cleaned Pot-R18 and have since disassembled and cleaned it. I have re-soldered the previous joints and tightened the ground nut for the ground bracket.
I have also swapped the 803 for an Elderly brand SS803, all with no effect. The cleanings took the signal from about 1.04 to approx 1.09.
Any direction on this will be appreciated.
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Cliff Jones
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PostSubject: Calibration Signal Voltage of B&K 707   2015-10-31, 11:22 am

Do you have the Manual?
What reading are you expecting from the tube you want to test?

Have you used the testing and calibration procedures that Bob Putnak provides on tubesound.com?

Your leaving out details, is this for an ECC803 (12AX7) Or an 803?, two different tubes. 

Is this the tube you are testing, or one in the tube tester itself?

Have you adjusted R-29?

What type of equipment are you using to measure the voltage?
The voltmeter should be either a VTVM, or a Dvm.

It should have an input impedance of 10 Megohms, otherwise if you use a standard analog meter such as a Simpson 260 it will load the circuit down and you will never get the correct voltage reading.

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Last edited by Cliff Jones on 2015-11-27, 6:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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ThomasJD



Join date : 2015-10-31

PostSubject: Calibration Signal Voltage of B&K 707   2015-11-01, 4:03 pm

It appears that I did not paste the whole message....sorry....I am trying to do a Putnick-calibration on the 707. I was able to get the 'Short Test' ok; and the 'Grid emission' test is ok; but I am stopped at the 'Signal Voltage' test.....I need 1.5 VAC but can only get 1.08 +- VAC.
1. Using a Fluke
2. Manual: a tube reference manual in paper. An op manual on computer file
3. I have found that the 16 ohm resistor on the lamp fed by R5 is testing at 25 ohms
4. I do have the lamp bases soldered but am having a bit of difficulty understanding how to solder the tips and still insert the bulbs into their holders w/o grounding the connection.
5. After re-re-doing the lamp and resistor area I'm going to re-clean the switch packs, perform another check and if necessary I'll try to isolate the switch pack components and feeds
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Cliff Jones
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PostSubject: Calibration Signal Voltage of B&K 707   2015-11-01, 8:45 pm

The 16 ohm resistor is critical to the bridge circuit for correct balance. 

Also R5 needs to be set with a VTVM into a tube socket 1pins 1&2 per users manual. (2.5 Va.c.)
There is only measurement that requires a VTVM, IT IS SHOWN AS A DOT in the legend notes on the bottom of the 1st-schematic. All other voltages are measured with a 20Kohm on D.C. And 5Kohms for A.C. (Somewhat confusing, I'd say)

The only one then using a VTVM IS the 2.5 Volts A.C. located in the bridge lamp area. But the schematic shows 1.5 V.a.c. At the junction of M6 and R-21. .???? Confusion reigns!

Are you saying the lamp sockets have bad solder joints for the 2 #55 lamps, or the lamps themselves?
Or the same question for the neon lamps?

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Last edited by Cliff Jones on 2015-11-27, 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ThomasJD



Join date : 2015-10-31

PostSubject: Calibration Signal Voltage of B&K 707   2015-11-02, 5:21 am

Pertains to the two  #55's....I have read several sources that recommend soldering the lamps ...and they all state soldering bases and tips??. the bases are easily soldered in place, wire to connection tab that holds the base.  That said the tip? unless you drill through the socket you can't do it. Drilling through the socket is Pandoras box. I can understand soldering a wire from lamp base to the 'solder tab' as the fit in the sockets are less that optimum. 
Your: "Also R5 needs to be set with a VTVM into a tube socket 1pins 1&2 per users manual. (2.5 Va.c.)"....my mistake ...my 1.5 should have read 2.5.
I have ordered an nos pair of 16 Ohmer's. Should have them in a few days. 
Tom
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ThomasJD



Join date : 2015-10-31

PostSubject: Calibration Signal Voltage of B&K 707   2015-11-02, 5:32 am

Also: I installed a neon into the test socket...not sure how 'smart' that is i.e. how critical that bulb is.
The bulb was sold as a replacement for that. 
I have been using the Fluke but if it is more advisable I still have several chrono Tripplets that work fine if they are better suited....pls let me know.
Tom
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Cliff Jones
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PostSubject: Calibration Signal Voltage of B&K 707   2015-11-02, 11:33 am

Soldering the bulbs in place is a waste of time, the only reason to do that is for field use, where there is a lot of jostling and banging the tester around a lot.

The neons need to be the exact # type, because of break over voltage requirements.
Only use the Fuke for required VTVM Measurements. Use your analog Triplett for all the othe measurements, because of its recognized load on the circuits. Think of it this way, it was set up to be used by radio repairers, that had limited test equipment resources.

The design Engineers took this into consideration, so if they were called for troubleshooting questions, they would have a common base within which to start with ( in effect a standard on which they could depend on).
That way when the voltages were not in specification, at least they knew the meter wasn't drawing too much or too little current ( IR DROP)

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Last edited by Cliff Jones on 2015-11-27, 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ThomasJD



Join date : 2015-10-31

PostSubject: Calibration Signal Voltage of B&K 707   2015-11-02, 2:24 pm

I really appreciate the advice....
I'll update as soon as the resistors arrive
Thanks again, Have a great week
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Cliff Jones
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PostSubject: Calibration Signal Voltage of B&K 707   2015-11-02, 2:52 pm

That would be great!

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Last edited by Cliff Jones on 2015-11-27, 8:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cliff Jones
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PostSubject: TV-7 /D Tube Tester   2015-11-15, 8:29 pm

Something wasn't right on my testing tubes on the TV-7/D.
I finally got the manuals as PDF files from on line. The 12, 24,  35, plus the tube settings to where I can read them.

One of my Ham buddy's loaned me a nice large D.C. 1Kohm per volt meter.
I started to test per printed instructions, and found all the readings were low enough to be out of tolerance. Testing the filaments, all low, testing the B+ Low, testing the bias, low, so I will now have to start looking for problems.

I suspect one of three issues, internal tubes need to be replaced, bad CR 101, or R124, is out of tolerance. I suspect the last item, it's a 275Kohm 1W resistor that is feeding the bridge meter circuit.
I will also test the transformer voltages and resistances.

Most meter circuits are actually a bridge circuit with the meter setup electrically in the center. The bridge is designed to be in balance at the start, so when a voltage is applied from a circuit, such as the plate, it unbalances the bridge circuit and that is then displace on the meter. It is a little different than a simple volt meter.

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Last edited by Cliff Jones on 2015-11-27, 9:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
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FrankB
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PostSubject: Re: Tube testers    2015-11-16, 4:58 pm

Cliff,
 I have started that project, except I need it for European "oddball" types (Like Rimlock) and such.
Still trying to find all the sockets I need, before I start the panel layout.

The older tubes should be pretty easy. Just wire all the appropriate pins in series.
I think I'd use an octal plug (An octal base from a 6 or 12 SN7 works great. It has all 8 pins) to connect to the main tester with. A separate conn. for grid and plate pins, switched so it can be connected to the appropriate pin connection, mounted on the panel. A couple of rotary 7 position S.P. switches should do it. Maybe remove the end stop to make it easier too.
I'd make the grid & plate caps connect to the panel switches via banana plugs and jacks, of different colors.
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FrankB
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PostSubject: Re: Tube testers    2015-11-16, 5:00 pm

On the Jackson, the center socket is a 5 pin, used for early photo tubes in projection equipment.
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Cliff Jones
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PostSubject: TV-7/D Tube Tester   2015-11-16, 5:39 pm

I did note that there is a difference in the TV-7/U vs TV-7D.

The R134 is TIED TO TERMINAL 37 of T101 a 40K value, and it can be adjusted, 
And in series with that is R124
the older versions were 245K, the newer D model is 225K.
The 117VAC feeds those two resistors in series then goes to 2 resistors R123 and R125, this is the start of the meter bridge. The meter is tied to the bottom of those resistors then connected to CR101. Those two diodes makeup CR101, and finish the circuit back to terminal 19 of secondary 117VAC
That looks like the area I will concentrate on first.

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Last edited by Cliff Jones on 2016-01-27, 3:28 pm; edited 3 times in total
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ThomasJD



Join date : 2015-10-31

PostSubject: Calibration Signal Voltage of B&K 707   2015-11-27, 4:49 pm

Well I hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving..
Anyway...I received the resistors and installed them....and no change.
Observations: Variac set to 117Vac (verified with Fluke)/ Test socket in Pos 1 connected pins 1 to Pos, Pin2 to Neg/ Pressed TEST1 required is 1.5Vac /  received is 1.15Vac.
Cleaned R20 (10 Ohm pot) Pot tested (center to end leg) 10.2 High and .1 low; the other end tested 10.4 high and .1 low.
Power supply lead on the pot tested: (connected to pot) 6.3Vac / 9.4Vac (desoldered/isolated) these are with no Variac...direct wall voltage.
Could the pot value be too high (10 ohms)
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Cliff Jones
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PostSubject: Re: Tube testers    2015-11-27, 9:49 pm

One of the problems, with most Digital Meters is that they cannot measure a combined voltage.
What I'm trying to say is you can have a D.C. Voltage and an A.C. Voltage on the same circuit.

Using a V.T.V.M. You have a probe that you can measure both component voltages separately.

One of the things I would suspect first off is either something is dragging the voltage down, such as a capacitor going bad, or a bad resistor. Next thing is to make sure there are no crossed wires, or miswiring. I would start at the source, THE TRANSFORMER voltages. Make sure they are correct and not under load. When you take other voltages they must be taken according to the manual with all switches in the number 1 position, have you done that?

Make yourself a voltage chart of the transformer taps, and put down expected vs. actual. Then do the same for listed test points.
Look and make sure someone hasn't miswired the switches, tube pins, even the push buttons.
The voltages must be taken without any button pressed. ( from the manual)

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Cliff Jones
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PostSubject: Re: Tube testers    2016-01-27, 4:14 pm

I finally printed the PDF files for the TV-7. Friend and member FrankB said if he can, he will swing up to my place, and help get my TV-7 up and running. Not that it doesn't work, but the voltages I measured, we're not in specs.

I have printed each file, and they have both sides of the page printed on. That sure makes a difference in the size of the manuals. Now I am going make side notes for referencing parts location and tests needed that are either missing, or never mentioned in the manuals. 

I am also going to make a parts list of each component, and will look up by mil spec each tolerance. These are not listed in the manuals part list, except by military designated numbers, and stock number.

The first thing to do is remove the tester from the case, then get the proper meter for testing each voltage. It has to be a 1Kohm per/volt meter, to load the circuit(s) properly. Then get the proper test resistors as required for calibration.

I now have the following manuals to help.
Folder # 1
A.  TM11-5083 (T016-35TV7-6)
B.  TB 11-6625-274-12/1 (changes No. 1 May 31,1962) (original also dated Jan 17,1962)
Folder # 2
C.  TM 11-6625-274-12 (14 June,1960)
D.  TM 11-6625-274-35 (30 June,1960) (Field and Depot Maintenance Manual)
(Air Force - T.O. 33AA21-5-32 changed of 15 March, 1962)
E.  TM 11-6625-274-24P (Nov. 1979)

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PostSubject: Re: Tube testers    2016-01-29, 5:29 pm

I have a TV-7U that needs the contacts cleaned on the push buttons. It probably needs more too. Been a while since I used it. Gonna have to ask around locally to see if anyone works on these.

I'll be keeping tabs on how you're doing. Maybe there are a few things I might be able to do myself here. Be prepared to be bugged with a few questions if I do. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Tube testers    2016-01-29, 7:22 pm

More than happy to act as a sidewalk superintendent. lol!
The best way to clean the switches, without washing is use a squirt bottle with isopropyl 90% and an acid brush, then dowse again. This time rotate each switch in turn and observe each finger to make sure you can see the contacts each move up and down. This will indicate the switch fingers have positive mechanical contact. 

Also note the spacing in between each set of finger contacts. All must either touch each other or have the same non-contact space between each. If so then it has to be less than the thickness of the rotating center contacts. 

If you find a contact that is having intermittent operation, make sure it doesn't have a loose rivet on the finger. Also do a continuity check on the fingers and wires to final destination point.

Next do a visual inspection to find cracks on electrical contacts and the center rings. If the rings have a black tarnish, that's OK, as silver tarnish is still a good conductor, I personally would burnish that away, just to see if there were hidden faults.

A q-tip will be an acceptable method, as it cleans, it picks up tarnish residue, that will itself aid the burnishing process. Silver cleaner liquid such as Tarnex is a good choice if you want to go fast. However it is important to thoroughly rinse and flush the wafers because of the salts in the cleaner.

I would use CRAMOLIN for all fingers and contact rings. The fingers will add the CRAMOLIN to fingers on the rotating fingers.

Another burnisher would be toothpicks or a strip of copy paper used as a belt between each set of fingers, or take the strip of paper and roll it into cone, and use the tip of cone to burnish.

The wafers themselves must also be inspected for mechanical faults.

The same things must be done to the push button switches.

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FrankB
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PostSubject: Re: Tube testers    2016-01-30, 7:25 pm

Remember- EASY on the Cramolin. Too much causes problems. Sad

Tarnish can also be removed with a stick type typewriter eraser, or a "Pink Pearl" eraser- gently!

 For the really adventurous, an ultrasonic cleaner works well, with Dawn brand dish detergent. DO NOT use the Harbor Freight  ultrasonic cleaner cleaner on anything aluminum.
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Cliff Jones
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PostSubject: Re: Tube testers    2016-01-30, 8:41 pm

I always applied CRAMOLIN with a toothpick, one difference is most rotary switches in military, has either gold or silver, gold was used mainly in circuit card connectors, and a lot of electronics plugs. But if the plugs were for power, then silver was the mainstay.

Gold had a threefold use, good conductivity, corrosion resistance, and because of its malibility ( or softness ) it was a a good lubricant between metal sliding contacts.

There were, or still are different colors of CRAMOLIN. One was specifically for gold, another for silver, I knew of two, red and green. I even have a butane size spray container, called gold mist, it is specifically for computer circuit card connector edges.

If you apply too much CRAMOLIN you can use a q-tip swab to absorb the excess, and it will still leave a microscopic film that is sufficient for applications. Then you can use the same swab for applying to other switches and contacts.

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PostSubject: Re: Tube testers    2016-01-31, 10:20 pm

On the old Cramolin package I have, (80's vintage) it says that if you can see it on the contacts, you used too much.
 They made a Cramolin Red and Gold in spray cans.
The Red & Blue were in bottles- back in the 80's- Came as a set.

  Edit: I was told the Gold contained gold, which is why it was about 10 bux more than the red.
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