Found some info on the web:
from old postings back in 2011 on ARF.
I consolidated them to make for easier reading.
Spell check used to correct most errors.
B&K 747 Tube Tester-Calibration step problem
Author Message
ss1965 I have a B&K 747 tube tester & went to do a calibration following the direction's in the instruction manual for the tube tester. All adjustments work great except setting the bias voltage. After replacing electrolytic cap's & checking the resistor's & diode's for the bias circuit and transformer voltage and all checking o.k. I have the voltage down to -38 volts from - 44 volts, according to the instruction manual it should be 2.5 volt's!! I am new at doing my own electronics' repair but determined to fix this...
I will appreciate suggestion's on this problem!! Thanks' Steve
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jcmjmp Make sure that your ground connections are nice and solid around the bias circuit. A lot of the connections to ground on these things aren't the best it seems.
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jcmjmp Another thing to check out is the actual resistance values. On my tester (707),some of the resistors were out by 20% in some cases. The carbon comp resistors are particularly prone to drift up in value over time.
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ss1965 Thank you! I did not think to check the ground connections because the other adjustment worked o.k.!! but I will check that possibility!!
All the resistor's checked close to value's listed on the schematic..I removed each one from the circuit to test them & real surprised that with the age of them they have been good so far...
I guess maybe best approach would be to actually clean the ground at the first tube socket since that is were the measurement for the bias voltage is taken and go from there...
Once again Thank you for the help!!
Steve
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Alan Douglas It sure sounds as if the bottom of the voltage divider is open.
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ss1965 Like I mentioned I am just starting to try get into electronics' at least do more than just read about electronics'! Could you give me some idea's how to go about checking voltage divider? I am pretty much learning by doing & asking lot's of question's...so I would appreciate all input... Thanks'!
Steve
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jcmjmp
Do you have a copy of the schematic?
A voltage divider is basically two resistors in series and voltage is taken between the two, referenced to ground.
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dsbk
There is a 470 ohm bias-string resistor on the end of the lever switches that goes open on the 747. Use same of higher wattage rating. B&K went to lower wattage resistors at that time, they don't tolerate setup mistakes and shorts as well.
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ss1965
I do have the schematic for the 747
I will look for the two resistor's for the voltage divider, hopefully I will recognize it?(hee hee)
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ss1965 Thanks' dsbk!
I will locate the resistor and check it!
So far I have checked the resistor's on the p.c. board that is in the bias circuit & they were good! changed the electrolytics on the board plus changed diode 8 and 9 because they each had a spot that visually had sign's they had been hot. Even though they checked good on digital meter??
Steve
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dsbk Going over that PCB with a iron is mandatory. Many bad connections are found there. Look at everything with a lens.
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ss1965 Hello everyone! I am still working on the 747 tube tester as time permit's.
I have taken every component off the p.c. board and tested all are good! getting 120 volts from the transformer.. schematic say's 110 volt's. checked every solder joint, all resistor's checked with in spec... the variable resistor for the bias adjustment I have had of the board twice and checked with ohm meter & is o.k.!! and have not found any shorts but the bias voltage is still way high! using a variac to make sure I have 110 volt's from a.c. power..I still get 38 volt's at lowest setting from variable bias resistor & calibration instruction's say 2.5 volt's d.c.??
And still all other calibration adjust in just fine!!!
This is driving me NUT'S!!
How important is the bias voltage for correctly testing tube's??
Should I add a resistor from the transformer to get the bias down to the 2.5 volt's??
I will welcome all advice!!
Steve
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Alan Douglas It's been years since I looked inside my 747, but, there ought to be a string of resistors across the bias source, used as a voltage divider. The resistors may be scattered around various tube sockets, but in the end, they're all in series across the bias supply. There has to be zero volts at one end and full voltage at the other. Find that string, measure the voltages, and you'll find the broken connection or switch contact that's the source of the problem.
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dsbk The 470 ohm on the end of the switch bank goes open often. Bias makes its way back to common thru the signal ballast.
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ss1965 Thanks' Allen & dsbk!
I have replaced the 470 ohm resistor already from a suggestion to check it from one of the earlier post's...there is a wire directly from transformer soldered to variable bias pot on the p.c. board...unhooking the wire and checking voltage from the transformer is close proper out put voltage...but voltage just high at the first tube socket where it should be low?? I have checked all resistor's on the schematic and every thing on the board there is two wire wound resistor's off the board I am going to check still and that will make every resistor in the unit checked...
I will look for voltage divider again dsbk! if I ever figure this out it will probably be something simple! but hard for a newbie like me!
Thanks' again!! I will be on here & let you know if me or tube tester is winning!
Steve
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ss1965 Sorry
I meant I will check for voltage divider suggestion Allen!! I mixed you and dsbk up!!
Steve
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dsbk ss1965, are you pressing one of the Test buttons while doing your string voltage measurements?
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ss1965 No instruction's said to put voltage meter between pin's 1 & 7 (pin 7 being ground) and adjust bias voltage to 2.5 volt's dc.. but voltage is 38 volt's at lowest setting on pot....i have not checked switch contacts closely but I will...recheck more component's not to many left to check though :)I've been unhooking about every thing an checking trying to find a bad something to fix this tester.. Steve
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ss1965 sorry last post not complete!! meant pin's 1& 7 at 1st tube socket...
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Retired Radio Man Try the adjustment with test button 1 depressed as suggested by dsbk. The 707 requires this. There may be a goof in the 747 manual. RRM
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It's worth a try! you could be right pressing the button may have been left out of instruction's... Thanks' for the response &suggestion retired radio man... Steve
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dsbk "Press test button 1" is an item in the procedure. Does your instruction not say that? It should. Look in the back of your owners' manual. No wonder...
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ss1965 I am sorry but I gave you people wrong information! yes I have pressed test button #1 when I was setting bias voltage...and as I said with pot at lowest point it's at 38 volt's.... I answered totally wrong earlier do not know where my thought's were at!!!!
And I am using original owner's manual following calibration procedure...
Steve
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dsbk OK, when a "Test" button is pressed it measures like this on a calibrated tester (you won't get print voltages):
Point "Z" white bus -19.5vdc, then thru 2.4K to blue bus -7.5 Vdc, then thru 1K to green bus -2.5vdc, then to ballast .07vdc. on a gray/violet wire. These are print colors, occasionally B&K may have used a different color in the build.
The bias string has its' source of -volts at point "Z" (hi bias) and the - of your 10 mfd bias filter is also tied to that point. The + side of that cap is at the ballast point (lo bias).
When testing, the AC drive signal comes from the ballast, and the ballast acts as the return to common for the dc bias voltage divider. The AC signal level is unaffected by the divider and will be 1.5vac everywhere on the string.
You can use a jumper to connect the lo bias (gray/violet) to chassis, and see if the divider is working to give different -dc levels. Do not push any buttons with jumper in place.
You will occasionally find a no-solder on a socket or switch with these testers. A lens helps.
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ss1965 Thank you so much for detailed explanation dsbk! that help's a lot
I will check what you described...I will be working on it this weekend I hope for the last time!! hee hee!
i have to unhook a diode from the circuit and check it out it show's a voltage both direction's it's by Transistor Q2 (2n404) then I will have checked each component singly...
Then I will follow your direction's...and hopefully cure this thing!!!
Thank you very much for your help!!
I will post later this weekend on if the tester or me is winning the battle....
have a great labor day weekend... Steve
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dsbk That FET Q1 often goes bad too. NTE457. Good luck.
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ss1965 I have to check voltage's that you posted still..... and I understand your instruction's.... but looking at the schematic (more like staring at it) I am not seeing any of the resistor's in the bias showing where they are going to ground!!the schematic is showing ground at the transformer & following the schematic the only ground shown is at c-6 & c-7 electrolytics, but none of the resistor's from the transformer through the bias circuit to the buss is shown being grounded like a voltage divider...how is bias referenced to ground?
My schematic is the original factory schematic ..but dose not show any grounded resistor's???
Steve
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dsbk Feed at the high bias end. Return to chassis through the signal ballast at the lo bias end.
The 10mfd filter is across those two points. The string is floating when not making a tube test.
Voltages are divided only when a "Test" button is pushed and the lo end gets connected to the ballast. The same -dc will appear at every point on the divider when a "Test" button is NOT pushed. That is why you can use a jumper to chassis at the lo end, thereby freeing your hands for diagnostics. Don't push a button with the jumper in place.
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Retired Radio Man The 707 has a 10 meg resistor that is in series with the bias divider. It is part of the gas test circuitry. This resistor is shorted and the low end of the divider connected when a Gm. test button is pressed. The schematic I have for the 747 shows a 3.3 meg and an 18 meg in the same general position. Both of these have to be shorted and the low end connected for the bias to be correct. Open switch contacts in either place will cause the bias to be way off and unadjustable. My schematic doesn't have numbers for the switches but the shorting set is part of the Hi Bias line and the low end set part of the Lo Bias line that goes back to the 1.5 volt signal source. RRM
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dsbk Thanks RRM, I glossed-over that, and you are right, it may have been a source of confusion.
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ss1965 I have not a chance to check any voltage's to spend any time with the 747 but will since this is a long weekend for me. Following the post you gentlemen have sent( I appreciate your help very much)
1)I need to clip a jumper from the + side of the 10 mfd. cap to chassis for ground. And with out pressing any buttons...have volt meter from chassis ground check voltages at blue buss/ green buss /& at gray / violet wire. And if voltage divider is working voltage's will be at or lower than -7.5 v at blue buss &-2.5 v & .07 v at gray/violet wire...
Am I correct?? I am wanting to make sure I am correct so I do not check voltages incorrectly and mess up 747..worse...
Thank you guy's for help & patience!!
Steve
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dsbk That sounds right, but as RRM said above, you still have other resistors in circuit that would be jumped-out when using the test button. This is just a fast diagnostic step to see if the divider is working with the jumper.
You may have to look at switch contacts or elsewhere if that test works, and the button test still does not give division.
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mescalero When evaluating switch contacts, I prefer to do it "live."
This allows me to better determine contact resistance under load. So, instead of powering down and using an Ohm meter, I will put a Volt meter across the contacts, either AC or DC (depending upon circuit properties) and measure the voltage across contacts when the switch is supposed to be opened and closed. Hypothetically, and depending on circuit properties, there should be two dramatically different readings. However, the voltage reading across contacts in the closed state should typically be very, very close to zero.
This works for relay contacts too.
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ss1965 Hello everyone! I wanted to give you an update on my battle with the tube tester..
I have checked the voltage's to see if the voltage divider is working as was described in the earlier post's.
With jump wire from + side of 10 mfd. cap to ground..
-009.5mv at blue buss...(7.5v)
-003.0mv at green buss(2.5v)
-000.0mv at the gray/violet wire (lo bias)(.07v)
I guess I need to follow the gray/violet wire back and see what I can find at other end?
Steve
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dsbk OK - you are getting close then. You have your meter and the print (and a nice chopstick is always good). If I told you anything wrong you will figure it out.
I'll look at the print again over the weekend if you need more help, or someone else will chime-in.
Good luck, ds
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ss1965 dsbk! You have been a big help!!! plus retired radio guy, and all the other's that have taken time to add a post! I am farther than i was to the source of the problem..
I have all ready replaced to 10 mfd. cap. I had the 470 ohm resistor lose checked both with meter and both were good. The low bias wire gray/violet is attached on the buss where cap & resistor are soldered to it..I resoldered the connection's when I had checked the cap & resistor...so solder joint is o.k. but I am going to have recheck it again....but I must be getting close...( I hope)
I will be looking at it over the weekend...
Steve
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ss1965 Just rechecked the 470 ohm resistor & 10 mfd cap & rehooked jumper to ground still no voltage at the low bias gray/violet wire...the 3.3m R 12 & 18m. R13 resistor's are good...
If I understand schematic there is a green /white wire between the R 12 & R 13 resistor to a closed switch? IF I understood correctly earlier post there should be a switch with closed contact's to make low bias show voltage? Am I correct on this thinking?
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ss1965 P So far the test button contact's are checking O.K. with continuity meter...a few more to check & then I don't know what to come up with?? :?
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ss1965 One more up date! Contact's on test buttons seem o.k. the 3.3meg & 18 meg resistor's are as shown in schematic...I discovered the two #55 light socket's show continuity between the center contact & socket housing with light bulb's removed! to me that is not very good...any opinion's?
Steve
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dsbk That's OK. Looking at the print you will see the lamps come off a transformer winding through a 10 ohm pot and 16 ohm resistors. If they are glowing with equal brightness and change when you adjust the pot, you can move on. That circuit is always producing the grid drive signal and you should see it at point EE and to your test1 and test2 switches on normally-open contacts.
You are using your dc scale for the bias readings - right?
Concentrate on what should be switched in and out. Make sure the resistor string from D8/C6 to point EE is complete and correct values. If you lift the bk/wt off of point EE, you can read the entire signal string with your ohm meter if the unit is unplugged and you press test1 or test2. This way you can read ohms from -Vdc source to the point EE conductor. Lifting the end off EE will get the return off of chassis so you can see through the string sequentially resistor-by-resistor if need be.
Check D7 for approx. +16vdc. If you still have problems pull the FET Q1 or replace it and measure again bias. A bad FET could be dragging you down.
No time to look at the print right now - I'm having generator madness service calls this month, and glad to get them.
ds
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dsbk For internet searches I'll post the conclusion here, which the OP put into a new thread.
The problem was Q1. Tester repaired.
ds